RoadDave

Every year we get an update from WordPress about our most popular posts. Every year, the same thing comes up. Bars in Ottawa Pt 1.  The backstory is that when RoadDave was originally created, it was a personal website that was frequently updated, on Microsoft’s user-oriented spaces for Hotmail users.  There was no such thing as ‘blogging’ at the time: you had to use an archaic plug-in for Word that created half-assed html code that you could post and render as a web page.  Eventually Microsoft go out of hosting user websites and sold everything to WordPress.

Naturally, when I ported over to WordPress, it picked up the wrong space and created the initial ds46ont.wordpress.com site, based on the email associated with the account. Which wasn’t what I wanted.  After a few days, we got that straightened out and what you know as RoadDave.wordpress.com came into being.

To make a long story, shorter, Google still picks up the old WordPress site and this story. Nine years after the fact, we still get hits and comments on it.  To commemorate our long-running stream of unconsciousness, with the comments and spelling mistakes intact, we present Bars in Ottawa Pt 1

 

Bars in Ottawa Pt I

Posted on December 1, 2007 | 66 Comments | Edit

I was doing some reflecting the other day, not in the sense of reflecting light, as I do that well enough, without any special training, but reflecting, in the sense of remembering things.  Bars seemed to come back to me.  Bars, as in licensed beverage alcohol parlours.

Some of these establishments are long gone, but a few still exist.  Others exist hazily as I was probably drunk when I went in and drunker when I came out, but I do have vague recollections of their decor.  Herewith, a list of Bars.

The Maple Leaf in Ottawa, site of much illegal drinking during high school.  A classic linoleum floor, Arborite tables and fluorescent lights.  Cheap draft and ghastly chuckwagon sandwiches that were reheated in a metal box, with what looked like a 300 watt lightbulb inside to heat your lunch.  After you got your chuckwagon sandwich and tore away the partially charred cellophane, you used mustard packets by the handful to douse the taste of the sandwich.

The Ottawa House, Hull.  Long gone, but a huge beer parlour that sat five or six hundred at a go and had a balcony surrounding the main dance floor.  Quarts of beer served to anyone who could see over the bar.  Also home of my first brush with the original 12 percent Bras D’Or beer.  There was usually a band in attendance.  The Guess Who played there toward the end of their career and apparently I saw them.  Getting puked on from the balcony was a hazard of the Ottawa House, but they didn’t care if you took the party into the street too.

The Eastview Hotel, Eastview.  (I refuse to call it Vanier, it’s Eastview, dammit!) Also long gone.  Had basement rec-room ‘oak’ panelling in the bar and a perpetually sticky floor from spillage.  Apparently there were people who lived in the Hotel. but I’m reasonably certain those folks never actually ventured out in daylight.

The Chaud, Hull.  There were two Hotel Chaudieres.  The Rose Room and the Green Door.  The Rose Room was upstairs, where you took a date.  The Green Door is where you went to get drunk and fight.  Both held more than 2,000 patrons at a go.  You were brought a quart as a matter of course; only girls were brought pint bottles.  The servers all had bus-driver change machines hooked to their belts and could carry at least 20 quarts and four jugs on a tray, with one hand.

In the glory days, the Chaudiere saw Louis Armstrong play the Rose Room.  Later, bands like Sha-Na-Na, the Staccatos, Octavian and the Five Man Electrical Band played there.  The Green Door was the kind of place where when you opened the door, you immediately ducked down, as there was either a bottle or a chair headed your way.

The Chaud was also home of Gerry Barber, the toughest bouncer on the planet.  One story about Barber will suffice:  A patron was being unruly and Barber asked him to sit down and shutthefuckup, tabernac!.  The patron objected and showed his displeasure by breaking a nearly full quart beer bottle over Gerry Barber’s head.  Normally, this would knock most humans to their knees.

Barber laughed out loud, in the face of the patron:  The 2,000 drunks in the room instantly became very quiet, as we knew what was going to happen next.  Barber grabbed the patron by the face and genitals, throwing him in the direction of the door, over a couple of tables.  When Barber strode over to where the crumpled patron lay, he was still chuckling to himself.  He picked up the patron by the belt, then used the patron’s head to open the door and toss him into the parking lot.  The band resumed playing and the rest of us resumed drinking.

The British Hotel, Aylmer.  The British sold something they called “Porch Climber”, which was a fortified wine-related fluid:  Sort of a high-test sangria, without the fruit slices, juice, or images of Spain.  Porch Climber was sold in pitchers, like draft and if memory serves, was $3 per 64 oz pitcher, while beer was $5 a pitcher.

Why it was called Porch Climber was never explained.  However, after a pitcher of that stuff, you’d be unable to get up on the porch, or for that matter, off the front lawn, where you had passed out, face down, the night before.  It also stained white Addidas three-stripe running shoes permanently.

The World, Ottawa.  The World was Ottawa’s premiere blues bar and had 300 as its’ listed capacity.  When bluesman Buddy Guy played The World, they sold 700 tickets and everyone showed up.

Women, on those nights when the house was full, (Long John Baldry would also pack the joint), would routinely be assaulted, or to use the vernacular of the time, “felt up”, as they tried to move through the crowd.  On occasion, a woman would be body surfed on the top of the crowd over to the bar, or the rest rooms, depending on where she wanted to go.

The Grads. Ottawa.  Originally a old fashioned “Ladies and Escorts” and “Men’s Entrance” type of tavern, it evolved into a watering hole for most of Carleton University, at one time or another.  The colour scheme was beige and red, like an old streetcar or the Ottawa Transport Company buses of the time.  The nicest thing about the Grads was the sign out front in Art Deco typography and design.  The restrooms were from the Night of the Living Dead.

Friends and Co.,  Ottawa.  In the disco era, Friends and Co was a meat-market of oak and brick, the concept being the ‘beautiful people’ of Ottawa would come together to drink and go home with someone different every night.  The beautiful people did congregate there and it was a spritzer and fern joint of the worst kind.

The Talisman, Ottawa.  The Talisman Hotel had a bar in the basement, which was done in full-on tiki lounge, with bamboo lamps, reed wall coverings, woven rattan furniture and servers in mahalo shirts in the dead of winter.

I can remember vaguely, some of, the Zombies they served, as well as the sounds of a South Korean disco band doing “That’s the Way, I Like It” in very bad accents.  However, they did have a full horn section of stone killers and the keyboard player had a Hammond B3 with the lightweight Leslie speaker cabinet that he knew how to play.  He made the table lamps shake with that organ when they did “Gimme Some Lovin’ by the Spencer Davis Group.

Barrymore’s, Ottawa.  Barrymore’s had an interesting history.  Originally, the Imperial Theatre, it was a movie theatre on Bank Street, then it was shuttered for a number of years, with the seats and screen still intact inside, covered in dust.  After a decade or two, it was reopened, at least the balcony and loges section, as Pandora’s Box, a strip club that was needlessly upscale for the time and neighbourhood.  Pandora’s restored some of the elaborate painting and gilt work of the original Imperial and recycled some of the velvet draperies for the peelers’ runway.

Then it closed again and reopened as Barrymore’s, a pre-eminent live music bar and showcase.  Any big act playing Ottawa at the Civic Centre, if they could, would stay over an extra night, or come a night early, to play Barrymore’s.  Barrymore’s held, legally, 550 people.  I was fortunate enough to see George Thorogood and the Destroyers, Tina Turner and Huey Lewis and the News in Barrymore’s.

There’s something galactically Right about seeing Huey Lewis or George Thorogood in a packed, smoky bar, with the entire place jumping up and down in unison, everyone, including the band, piss drunk.  Tina Turner had just released “Private Dancer” and was a mega-star, who had booked Barrymore’s months before, as a warmup date for her tour.  A Rolling Stones tribute band, the Blushing Brides, used to own the place when they played there.

Licensed as a bar, Barrymore’s didn’t have a bad seat in the place.  A big stage, left over from the strippers, and one of the first GE Talaria video projection systems that was installed for non-band nights.  They’d fire up the video system and play some of the very first music videos on the big screen at ear-splitting volume.  On very quiet nights, they’d hook an Atari Pong game up to the big screen and you could play Pong on a screen that was twenty feet wide.

Pineland.  Ottawa.  In what looked like a small, warmed over rural arena, next to a rental go-kart track, some of the 60’s and 70’s best local bands played Pineland.  The CFRA Campus Club for Coke, with Al Pascal, used to host the bands.  Pineland was the home for the Townsmen, the Staccatos, Octavian, Five Man, the Cooper Brothers, Bolt Upright and hundred more bands.  Ostensibly, Pineland was not licensed, but Gilbey’s Lemon Gin was readily available.

I’m going to end it here, for now, but if you remember some of the old Ottawa hotspots, like the Red Door, the Laf, Salon Diane and Salon Colette, as well as the Claude, the Elmdale, the VD and some of the other holes, drop me a line.

There are more stories to be had.

66 responses to “Bars in Ottawa Pt I”

1. sherry | September 6, 2008 at 11:07 AM | Reply | Edit

These are great stories, hope you don’t mind some additional info about Barrymore’s.   The Imperial Theatre opened in 1914 and seated 1200 people.  A floor was installed in the 1960’s, running from the bottom of the balcony to the back of the original stage.  This space was eventually rented to Canada’s first all nude strip club, Pandora’s Box.  A floor was also installed at the front of the building over the original lobby, and was used as a massage parlor.  The strip club kept the original balcony theatre seats and had purchased the red velvet curtains from the Capitol Theatre when it was demolished, but never did any restoration.    Pandora’s Box was closed in 1978 for it’s failure to meet building safety standards.  4 partners bought the lease and renovated the space to open as a disco/supper club.  Cost overruns and a bad review by Ottawa Citizen Dave Brown columnist forced the club into bankruptcy within 18 months.   In 1981 the lease was purchased by 3 partners who thought it would make a great live music venue.  And so it was for more than 10 years.  What many people may not know is the club’s legal capacity was 198 people, posted on the liquor licence behind the lower bar.  Security’s first priority was to make sure aisles, stairways and exits, were clear, especially if the club was over capacity.  Liquor, fire and police inspectors would drop in from time to time to make sure patrons were safe, and responsible managers were on duty.  The highest attendance was for George Thorogood, more than 550 people.   The owner’s biggest concern was that the poured floor did not have enough support.  On busy nights the ceiling of the Nervous Onion would move up and down.  Perhaps that is why it is closed now.   Aloha,

1. Chris | May 15, 2009 at 3:22 PM | Reply | Edit

Yes Gerry Barber was a very tought bouncer, Im trying to find out more about him or if theres a family historian or any pictures, see i am somehow kin to gerry barber, he was my moms cousin and i googled his name today and thats how i came across your blog, if you know anything elts about him please e-mail me at chrisstgermain83@hotmail.com or if you can point me in the direction of someone who does thank you.

• Fitz | October 19, 2014 at 9:28 PM | Reply | Edit

Yes Good Old west end Gerry .One summer after noon at the stanish Hall he escorted me out for being to mouthy .I know my right ear must be a inch longer then the other now as that’s how he was directing me out.Me be the drunk monchoman .I went to the side sreen window and starting yelling some really nasty things throw the window when I looked to the side their was Gerry running across the parking lot in full tilt I ran to my motor cycle and the stupid Yamaha junk wouldent start and he was comeing and foaming at the mouth Their must be a god because the bike started and I just got away .Good thing as I know I wouldent be typing this right now.Deap down Gerry was one hell of a nice guy and new my brother,s well

1. Pierre | December 26, 2009 at 9:38 PM | Reply | Edit

Your write-up brings back memories, only because I left those places almost sober and remembering everything that went on. Just to make a note about the Chaud, short for Chaudiere Golf and Country Club. It was situated on the Aylmer Road in Aylmer, not in Hull, across from the Glenlea Golf an Country Club, known today as the Champlain Golf Club. The Chaud was a conbination of two watering holes. The Rose Room, situated upstair, was a very classy, old style dance hall with a mezzanine or balcony level on all four walls. The Green Room, on the other hand, was more of a dive bar where you could get wasted on beer and shop for your favorite drugs. Drugs were peddled in the same manner as peanuts and popcorn at a baseball game. “MESC, ACID, HASH!”The Chaud was sold after the owner, JP Maloney, died. It was levelled and replaced by what is now known as the Chateau Cartier Hotel and Resort. The golf course is in much better shape since the change.Another good place for seeing bands, such as the Cooper Brothers, was the Gatineau Golf and Country Club. The building was destroyed by fire and replaced by a Loblaws and strip mall in the 80’s.What memories we have!

1. Jim | July 6, 2010 at 3:20 AM | Reply | Edit

Oh, Pineland. I worked there for a couple of years taking money and stamping hands. But more than that, I painted the pictures and murals in dayglo. I painted a wild mandala on Octavian’s drum kits but it flaked off after a couple of shows. Fun times.

• RICK JAMIESON | October 26, 2010 at 11:48 AM | Reply | Edit

grew up with Kirk Dorrow the drummer. do you have any picks of his drum kit. Any info on Octavian would be appreciated. Rick J

• Wayne ( Eggs) Benedict | March 31, 2014 at 7:40 PM | Reply | Edit

you where on of our favourites Jim. As I recall Jenny and I picked you up at home most Saturday nights before the gigs at Pineland. And you did a great, honest job.

1. David | July 6, 2010 at 9:03 PM | Reply | Edit

Thank you Arnold, for droppnig by. And also a large thanks to others who have commented and filled in some of the gaps in the memories.

1. Tom | October 6, 2010 at 10:33 PM | Reply | Edit

just a small comment re the Chaudiere Green Door – I ‘lived’ there back in 1971 – 1973 when I graduated to the Rose Room after they got rid of Terry Carisse and started bringing in rock bands and I can tell you there’s no way you could fit 2000 people in the Green Door (maybe a couple of hundred); Rose Room – yes, GD – NO

• Road-Dave | October 9, 2010 at 11:56 AM | Reply | Edit

Tom:

OK, I’m guilty of exaggeration 🙂 Thanks for your comment. I’ll refer you over to the main site, which is roaddave.wordpress.com. The ds46ont one was used just for the migration from Live Spaces. See you around.

Cheers! David

1. Brent | October 11, 2010 at 2:55 PM | Reply | Edit

Great stories!

1. al d. | September 29, 2011 at 4:17 AM | Reply | Edit

What was the name of the tavern in the old Union Station in Ottawa. It was across from the Grand hotel (bar) on Besserer st. and Sussex

1. FRANCINE | January 27, 2013 at 10:21 PM | Reply | Edit

So glad I came across this info – I had requested photos of The Chaud and here I am… About the Glenlea – was that across the The Chaud a bit down the road on way to Aylmer? I spent lots of weekends @ The Ottawa House – Loved the bands… what was the name of the blind singer -he was so good. Ray Hutchison? There was a nearby venue that I saw The Platters @ – same side as The Chaudiere – maybe further heading again to Aylmer… and The British Hotel in Aylmer – Western singer – Huey Scott… he took forever to prepare – warm up for his shows – back in the 60’s. My then husband’s favorite artist. What about the hotels downtown Hull like the dance halls @ Chez Henri & there was another popular one around the portage area. Not far from The Ottawa House. Man… it sure feels good to go back in time – I miss those days!

About the tavern on Besserer & Sussex – it’s on the tip of memory. Shoot! Wish I could read more about Ottawa/Hull’s past entertainment venues.

Oh… I used to go dancing on Bank Street – One b4 the exhibition grounds.. and the Oak Door – anyone remember those two?

I sang @ age 14 @ La Salle Hotel on Dalhousie – My dad took me and put me on stage – Food was served so I was allowed in. I sang “You Made Me Love You’ lol How I miss my teenage & 20’s years.

One last place was @ The Riverside in Eastview (Vanier) on Rifer Road. Gino Vanelli performed there he said @ his last show in October @ Nepean Centrepoint Theatre.

I saw Elvis in 56 when he came to Ottawa – hmmm was it the colosium?

Anyways – Thanks for the memories…

• Jack | February 7, 2015 at 8:37 PM | Reply | Edit

When I was going to Aylmer to see Huey Scott, he played at the Chamberlain Hotel not the British…….Unless he played there before or after….

1. richard | January 29, 2013 at 8:38 AM | Reply | Edit

Youngsters all what about the rendezvous or the masque rouge maybe Le soleil and for any one with an ounce of class cafe le Hibou

• Susan Smith | May 3, 2013 at 11:57 PM | Reply | Edit

I was looking for info on the Rendezvous when I came across this blog. It was my tavern style experience as a University Student, when the bars closed in Ottawa that was where everyone went.

• Brent Beatty | May 4, 2013 at 7:37 PM | | Edit

When I drove cab for ABC in the early 70’s, the shift would end about 1:00 am for us and we’ed head over to the Rendezvous. It had an atmossphere that we liked; kinda smokey and not too pretentious. The back room was our favourite and we would be left alone by the bouncers as long as we behaved ourselves, which we usually did. But I remember one night when about a dozen or us, guys and gals, showed up and took a table in the back. I had to use the washroom and wasn`t there very long but by the time I got back to the table, the entire crew were getting the bum`s rush out the door. I still don`t know to this day what the Hell happened but somebody must have pissed off a bouncer to a great degree and that was that. I miss the place even today as it represented the old Hull before all the Fed. Gov`t buildings went up. Fond memories, B

1. raoul duke | March 27, 2013 at 3:46 PM | Reply | Edit

I remember my first visit to the Chaud; the after party for our grade 12 ‘formal’ (held at the Talisman, natch) which shut down early after a crew member burned half his face while setting off a phosphorous flash-pot with a match, but that’s another story.

What I clearly remember was someone setting off a backyard sized firework (the ‘Volcano’ sort) on a table next to a back wall of the Green Door. It went off for about a minute. And no one noticed or did anything about it. Coolest thing I have ever seen in a bar.

Gerry Barber was the reason the Chaud wasn’t a biker bar. ‘Nuff said.

1. Les | August 10, 2013 at 11:27 AM | Reply | Edit

The Plaza…Sparks St. west of Bank St, 1960’s -1970’s. Bar downstairs, 25 cent drafts, music upstairs, saw Canada Goose perform there.

Le Soleil, Hull Disco Viva, Hull Sacs Disco Bar, Hull Bests Bar, Hull Rotters Club Chez Henri, Hull

Trying to remember the name of a disco on Riverside that my parents used to go to in the ’60’s….

• Brent | August 21, 2013 at 9:33 PM | Reply | Edit

If I recall, and it’s getting harder to do that these days, it was called The Rib. But I stand ready to be corrected, among other things. Brent

1. Michael Krushnisky | August 30, 2013 at 11:55 PM | Reply | Edit

The nickname for the Riverside Tavern and Disco was “The Rib”. Upstairs, you could find the disco that had Playboy Bunny replicas serving drinks in the early to mid 70’s. The Tavern downstairs, (very similar to the Maple Leaf Tavern located on the corner of Montreal Road and St. Laurent Blvd.) was where all the heavy duty power-drinkers threw back quarts of ’50’, ‘EX’, etc. Fights were pretty common but generally just included fists and boots. Some taverns actually had what they called a ‘panic button’ in their bathrooms, if you got jumped you could reach to hit the buzzer so the waiters could come to your assistance. I remember being able to buy a quart for .75 cents at the ‘Leaf’ and the ‘Rib’ taverns, only place cheaper we knew of was the Ottawa House tavern across the Ottawa River in Hull Quebec for .70 cents. I also remember being able to purchase beer at any of these Taverns long before I turned 18 which was the “drinking age” at the time. As I sit here writing this response to the above comments I realize that I could likely talk about these places for days on end, I somehow completed Grade 13 at Rideau High School inspite of it being located down the road from the ‘Leaf’ (“ML”). I actually remember a teacher at Rideau whose class was scheduled on Friday afternoons, with most of the class down at the draft room of the Maple Leaf each Friday for long lunch hours, he finally relented and even taught a few classes while quaffing drafts with us at the Maple Leaf Draft room. “Those were the days my friend” however different from the old theme song of the All in the Family sitcom – “I knew they would have to end”, HA-HA.

1. Road Dave | August 31, 2013 at 12:22 PM | Reply | Edit

In reviewing all these postings, it seems there are several of us with the same mental problem: We were drunk. I’ll add the Sly Fox Disco on Carling Ave (now some evangelical church) that was originalloy the Sampan restaurant. Rumor was the Sly Fox had one of the floor lights from the set of “Saturday Night Fever” in the dance floor. Cheezy Hank (The Chez Henri) was also a fern bar in its’ later iterations.

1. Mike | August 31, 2013 at 1:13 PM | Reply | Edit

This is like eating peanuts, I can’t stop recollecting now. Do you remember the Lafontaine Hotel on Montreal Road, downstairs was the proverbial Tavern with more or less same atmosphere as the Leaf and the Rib, but upstairs was the ‘Golden Rail’ – Country music bands at their finest, packed to the rafters Thursday, Friday & Saturday nights, lots of women seated alone, always friendly and easy to meet. I vividly remember being in there one night when they announced that Elvis Presley had just died, there was literally a hushed silence over the place for a good minute while the patrons dealt with their shock. Another really dingy tavern I remember on Montreal Road was the Eastview Hotel, was definitely a place you wanted to have someone watching your back, lot of tough, dangerous characters frequented the Eastview, some had just been released from Prison or the detention centre on Innes Road (Holiday Innes) as they referred to it. Of course all of Montreal Road had plenty of watering holes and was like the gateway to the “Byward Market” by way of the Cummings Bridge (more stories for another day). Some people I knew kept up that way of life throughout their adult lives – I guess thats why I regularly find so many familiar names, only in their 50’s reflected in the Ottawa Citizen Obituaries.

1. Perry | October 9, 2013 at 2:54 AM | Reply | Edit

The Raceway Tavern on Clarence St. Classic Market tavern with hookers galore. Live music by Paul Henry. Bouncer Gordie Galinger kept us safe and his wife at the bar kept us drunk. Ahh, my sweet university days!

1. Susan | October 23, 2013 at 12:55 AM | Reply | Edit

I remember going to the Chaud to see Cheap Trick, drinking quarts and getting stoned right at your table because back then you could—that was an awesome show, from what I remember, because I don’t remember leaving the Chaud or how I got home that night. Someone mentioned the Talisman had a bar downstairs so for the record I believe it was called the Beachcomber! Also does anyone remember the Black Swan or Club Zink? Great stories …Cheers 🙂

• Road Dave | October 23, 2013 at 12:21 PM | Reply | Edit

I knew the Swan well, and the Beachcomber. Zink, no

• jeff | November 9, 2015 at 4:29 PM | | Edit

club zinc in Hull

1. Rob N | November 8, 2013 at 7:00 PM | Reply | Edit

Wow I am glad I found this page what memories. I grew up in Carp and Saturday and Sunday nights we loaded up a few cars and headed to the Chaud. We never went into the Green Door, although we fought our fair share they had a different code of conduct down in that hole( bottles knives, guns etc). Do you remember the old guy that came around with the flash camera and would take your picture for a few bucks. I still have a pic from there from 83. The only place you could buy anything hash,pcp,lsd,pot uppers downers lol you name it. We just smoked the hash. Remember how the waiters would come around with their coin changers and flash lights. For a small tip they would hold the flashlight so you could see while rolling your joint on the table. If you were in a fight god forbid you had better get your shots in quick and get out of there before Gerry Barber got there and got a hold of you. I saw many a supposed tough guy get the crap kicked out of them be Barber and then ejected with his signature toss out the front door and down the steps, a buddy of mine had that pleasure one evening. One night a buddy and myself went in and had a sprinkle in the can and while we were walking by a stall with the door open we saw a biker looking dude (for lack of a better term) having a crap with the door open. My buddy and I were laughing as we ponied up to the urinal, we stopped laughing emediately when we heard ” hey stretch you think that’s pretty funny eh) my buddy is 6Ft 6 in and had a gun in his ear. Luckily a guy in the washroom saw this and got out and got Barber. The rest is history ( they didn’t call the cops for those things at the chaud).

Anyway lots of great times. They don’t make places like that anymore. As a final note we had to drive through the hull , qpp, rcmp, nepean, Ottawa, opp police forces to get home. Imagine these days!!!

1. Doug | February 19, 2014 at 9:31 PM | Reply | Edit

Seems I just jumped in Mr. Peabody’s wayback machine, yeeesh.. yeah, I remember, or not remember getting home from the Chaud many a times. and damn, I shoulda taken that Raquel Welch poster from behind the bar..

Glad someone remembered the Raceway Tavern. Interesting times were had there. And don’t forget the Albion Hotel. A good place to go when you didn’t want to be around others, or cheerful people. Quite sullen at times, but hey, the drinks were cheap..

Being a west-ender growing up, there was always the CrazyHorse on March Road to fall back on, if you didn’t want to head into the city.

And during the university days, the weekend routine was always the same.. Thursday nights at Oliver’s at Carleton U. ( saw some amazing early acts there, Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe, John Baldry, etc etc). Friday nights were always the Algonquin Pub ( Powder Blues Band, Crowbar, Doug & the Slugs, etc), then over to Hull, hoping to find a date for Saturday night. Saturday night it was Disco Reflections at some hotel ( the Delta Inn) with your date, then over to Hull…. Sunday, sleep it all off and start over again..

For a good bite to eat with your beer, there was always the Capri restaurant on Merivale, with their square pizza and huge jugs of beer, or Peter’s Pantry in the Carling area ( really hot waitresses there at the time), and damn, the name escapes me right now of the place on Richmond Road in Westboro where the Mill St. Brewery place is now..Kind of a rundown place, but the same faces night after night after night, each with their own life story to listen in on if they let you….

and if you desperate, really desperate for a date, there was always the singles night at the Concord Hotel on Montreal Road on a winter’s Friday night…

yeah, good times, good times. Thanks for the memories in dragging a lot of these up. The Rose Room was always the fave and the go-to place though. even at 16, with an underage ID card that would do McLovin’ proud, lol

• Road Dave | September 6, 2014 at 9:53 PM | Reply | Edit

The Capri and I have a long history, as I used to work at CJOH-TV. The Capri was where all the crews, most of the staff and a good percentage of management drank and occasionally ate. If you couldn’t find someone, you’d go over to the Capri and check the bar. If they weren’t in the bar, they were on the restaurant side. We’re talking the Old Capri, when they had the hobnail wood floors, before it was fern-bar’ed and redecorated, back when CJOH had a front lawn and there wasn’t a radio station building out front. Mind you, we got hammered at both Capri’s, so, actually it’s all moot.

• richard | January 5, 2015 at 7:47 AM | | Edit

Dave What did you do at CJOH i worked there for some time originally security then on the Galloping gourmet show and Any thing You Can Do game show

• Road Dave | January 5, 2015 at 9:50 AM | | Edit

Commercial Production from 1981 to 1988

• Road Dave | January 5, 2015 at 2:23 PM | | Edit

Worked in Commercial Production and eventually wound up as Manager Commercial Production, then went freelance.

• Jano | September 18, 2014 at 12:03 PM | Reply | Edit

The Kingsway on Richmond Rd in Westboro. Square pizza, joints at the table, # 2 police station around the corner!

• Fitz | October 19, 2014 at 8:59 PM | | Edit

Yup and Terry and Tony would be shacking their fist and yakking in Greek

1. Chantal | March 20, 2014 at 9:55 PM | Reply | Edit

Anyone remember the bar where the Restaurant 18 is now or basement where Side Door is located….I can’t remember the name for the life of me…I think it had the word blue in it but not sure

• Denis | December 14, 2015 at 2:52 AM | Reply | Edit

GuadalaHarry’s, mexican restaurant!

1. Wayne ( Eggs) Benedict | March 31, 2014 at 3:10 PM | Reply | Edit

I remember all of those joints. At the same time I ran dances at Pineland, Parkdale, Lighthouse and Beamish Hill Chalet. Also managed Octavian and Liberation, so have a ton of great memories. FUN, FUN, FUN !!!

1. Dean Hagopian. | April 1, 2014 at 11:29 PM | Reply | Edit

My nerves I’m hemmorhaging mentally from the waves of memories. EAsy on the hemp everyone. Seem to be missing another of my fave watering holes, super for music and talent too, On the upper Aylmer rd, it was a Golf Course also., Owned by Joe Sax, and his two shall we say very entertaining sons, Spent a lot of time there when I was living in Aylmer and working at OY. Super musicians, seem to remember Russ Thomas, before he changed his name and moved to Montreal. Spent many nights when Johnny Nash was there. We(being the Staccatos played at most of the places mentioned, so you can understand how weird my memories might be. Another kick ass quality bar we liked alot was the Duvernay in Hull. Played and got whacked there on many occasions, cause that ‘s what one did in those days and nights. Thanks for the rushes.

• Road Dave | April 2, 2014 at 12:38 AM | Reply | Edit

And thanks for a blast from the past from Dean Hagopian, back when AM radio was Boss! I’ll add memories of Al Pascal, Shelley Emmond, Trevor Kidd, Ivan Hunter, Dave “50,000” Watts, Bill Drake, Tom Lucas, Jim Johston, Art Stevens, Casey Fox, Rick Shannon and the Original Winter’s Nights on BY at the old joint on Richmond Rd.

• Jack | February 7, 2015 at 8:54 PM | Reply | Edit

Dean Hagopian ? Are you the DJ from CKOY in the 60s? Used to listen to you all the time …..

• Hank | March 19, 2015 at 1:00 PM | Reply | Edit

Ottawa lost a good DJ when you moved to Montreal. Can you remember the daily line-up of announcers at CKOY just before you left? Nelson Davis? Overnight Wood vs Kohl (CKOY vs CFRA)?

1. Sue | April 2, 2014 at 4:52 PM | Reply | Edit

K Mart resturant for the Algonquin College students was a great watering hole and dancing on the Rose Room floor as it heaved and moved with all the folks is a memory worth while!

1. Pingback: Bars In Ottawa – Reprint | RoadDave Edit
2. peter | October 4, 2014 at 4:26 PM | Reply | Edit

how about the blind pig below the holiday inn.the bayshore hotel and the loading zone montreal road.my first discoteque for me was the sax on main street in hull later became j.r dallas.met the village people there april 15 1979 after the show at the civic centre awesome show tickets were 15.00

1. peter | October 4, 2014 at 9:51 PM | Reply | Edit

also in the early 70s there was the banana boat duffs in bells corners the old spaghetti factory on york street.when i moved to the west 1974 it was the sanpan in 1975 it became the sly fox then 1978 it became studleys with 1 fifth of the saturday night fever floor.in 1979 it became bobby rubinos chicken and ribs and fantastic onion rings.after it became rentalex and the kraft house and now its the house of god.growing up downtown there was the saucy noodle almost across from the somerset theatre between kent and bank.of course peters pantry cant forget that awesome place the best pizza and the best zombies in the biggest snifter glasses.bells corners famous for branscombs.great bands and music.carling and brodview great chinese restaurant the sun luck.

1. Road Dave | October 4, 2014 at 10:43 PM | Reply | Edit

Let us not forget The Dill Pickle on Merivale Road, The Beachcomber, of course and Capone’s on Carling, out near Peter’s Pantry. And the Lindenhoff Gasthaus.

1. Wayne ( Eggs) Benedict | October 5, 2014 at 2:48 PM | Reply | Edit

and don’t forget the Sunken Dory on Merivale Road. Great ceasers . On the subject of the band Liberation my old friend Billy ” white shoes” Shenkman was the key board player, now a J/V partner at TD place home of the Ottawa Redblacks. He was a fine musician. Lead singer was the pride and joy, . baby boy, Jimmy Young.

1. peter | October 18, 2014 at 7:00 PM | Reply | Edit

how about brandys on york street houlihans.the caprice on 99 laval street in hull.the cosmos in the cfra building on isabella ave.reflections at the embassy west.alexanders on the island.le marginal on eddy street.clu 61 aylmer.disco 2000 in gatineau. le club on wellington street.hurleys all over ottawa the rosebowl steakhouse at 1671 carling ave.which opened aug.15 1974.villa delli across from lawnsdowne park.

1. Fitz | October 19, 2014 at 9:07 PM | Reply | Edit

Don’t for get the Quiet softly spoken places like the Vandom,The steirling west end Boys ya know their was a pair of boots named Wellingtons .The good good old days .Funny iam still kicking

1. Dean Presley | March 10, 2015 at 4:34 PM | Reply | Edit

Great memories of so many of these places . Would like to see photos of them inside and outside .

1. Doghousedonnie | March 19, 2015 at 2:06 PM | Reply | Edit

The market was home to the Commercial Tavern, a classic old tome beer and Country music Joint, which was torn down and became the Hard Rock. And who remembers the Sterling Tavern in Mechanicsville?

1. Will D. | March 19, 2015 at 7:34 PM | Reply | Edit

Oh man. If you had a date you went to the Glen Lea to drink quarts and dance to the Playdates. If out with the lads from St. Pat’s you went to the Texas Tavern in Hull to buy a quart for $.90 and watch the Hull criminal element at play. Their packaged wagonwheels from the microwave would kill you but the pickled eggs from “Cheese Please Louise” were popular.

1. Diane | April 15, 2015 at 1:33 PM | Reply | Edit

Claude Hotel on Beechwood in Vanier drink quarts dance and get hammered

1. J.P. Lanthier | August 10, 2015 at 2:45 AM | Reply | Edit

The barn in Aylmer great groups played there…

1. Dave | August 28, 2015 at 4:06 PM | Reply | Edit

There was the body shop in Westboro

1. Guy Carisse | October 14, 2015 at 12:07 AM | Reply | Edit

About the Ottawa House of the 60’s. Saw the Stampeders but most often was Harry Younge & The Noblemen 66-68! Last saw them at the Wakefield Inn, Wakefield, Quebec in 1999. Sat down and had a brief chat with Harry. Sadly, he died a few years later!

1. Doug | October 20, 2015 at 5:21 PM | Reply | Edit

WOW. OK, here goes. What was the other name of the Stirling? And I don’t mean ‘bucket of blood’. Rick and Dino’s after the Carleton closed? I think Friends and Company was Squires/Nozzle? Speaking of Rideau St, how about Dave’s Den/Rideau Tavern, Black Swan, Arnolds, Mollys, The Grand, The Albion. Saw a midget country band at the Raceway………. Steve’s Steakhouse, open late. Became the Makut. Downtown, Fife and Drum, great bands, had a beer with James Cotton. The Tap Room, big Ed, little Ed and Gil. Bank, the Rotters, 80s, Jungle. Saw John Cale, think it was the 80s Club, above the Gilmour?? The Alex on St Paddys Day, original green beer. Branscombes/Barons? in Bells Corners. Anybody remember a place in Hull, Nouvel Epoch (sp) ??? Bon Vivant, Serge. Back in the days of CFL blackouts, Danny Kelly’s Carlsbad Hotel. Gerry’s on Bank (Hiway 31) close enough to the K&S for late snack.

I know there are more, but I feel better now.

I also think that i/we are lucky to be alive 😉

1. Ed Cain | November 5, 2015 at 4:16 PM | Reply | Edit

Talk about a walk down Memory Lane – this is great. Got into the Ottawa House when I was 16 and never missed seeing Harry Young and the Noblemen when they played there. I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Standish Hall (above the Rendevous) nor the Carleton hotel (near the West End Market. How about the “Longest Bar in the Gatineau” ? Don’t recall its real name or where it was – not one of my better perforrnances.

• Doug Hibbard | November 29, 2015 at 2:29 AM | Reply | Edit

Kazabazua Hotel, longest bar

1. Wayne Windle | November 9, 2015 at 2:22 PM | Reply | Edit

Here are some places that I recall…..The Albion Hotel/ tavern ..25 cent draft, a tray for $2.50….the Del Rio restaurant on Rideau St and their pizza-burger pizzas…the Prescott Hotel on Preston and their meatball sandwiches…the Grand hotel near Parliament Hill and their Friday 5 cent baked bean lunches so long as you had two draft…that Irish Pub on Rideau St.,Muldoons …the Alexandria hotel on Bank St for St Patrick’s Day.. Lenny O’Brien’s St Patrick’s Day blow outs…the Chez Lucien on the Market…the pig n’ whistle pub…the Hay Loft. crocks of old cheese,peanut shells under foot.

1. Mike O’Reilly | November 19, 2015 at 5:46 AM | Reply | Edit

Remember the: Grads, Vendome, Alexandra, Plaza, Ritz, Belle Clare,Grand, LaSalle (one in Ottawa one in Hull),Richelieu, Commercial, Elmdale, Claude, Maple Leaf, Lafontaine, Bytown, Windsor, Capitol, .The only taverns left are the Carleton, Dominion and Lafayette. Oh yeah I just remembered the Chez Lucien and the Raceway. On the Quebec side were the: Belle Amis, Standish Hall ,Rendezvous, Wellington, St Louis, Ottawa House, Texas, Bank, Chez Henri, Montcalm, Glenlea, Chaud(Rose Room and Green Room), Gatineau, Aylmer, British, Chamberlain, Sur Le Lac, Deschenes, Laval (free beans & French bread), Raftsman, Manoir des Rapides. I remember as a kid, down in the flats “The Duke”. This is from memory and I’m sure I’ve missed a bunch, obviously a misspent youth. The longest bar in the Gatineau was. In Kazabazua.

• Mike Krushnisky | November 19, 2015 at 10:34 AM | Reply | Edit

That’s a thorough list of Taverns for Ottawa/Hull, just thought of another one; the old Eastview Hotel – up Montreal Road from the Leaf towards the Cummings Bridge, in the heart of what was then known as Eastview now Vanier. The list was so complete but I think the Gilmour Hotel on Bank Street and the Riverside Hotel (Rib) were also missing. Cheers, Mike

1. Eileen | November 30, 2015 at 3:33 AM | Reply | Edit

The Barn in Aylmer (managed by Don Dugas & family) had many exquisite bands, so did The Glenwood Bowl (managed by Gary Downes). No booze (unless snuck in), just great music and good clean fun. Many local badns including The Stacattos, The Girlfriends, The Townsmen, Robby Lane & The Disciples, just to name a few, played there. People from “everywhere” came to join in on the fun. It was a great place for teenagers to hang out. They were even opened on weekend days so people could drop in to play games, ping pong, etc. It was very well supervised. They had dances in the afternoon (windows blocked to create darkness and ambiance). The Gatineau Golf & Country Club had a fantastic night club where stars like Bobby Cortola and Ronny Dove performed. Those were the days!

1. Thomas Simon | December 22, 2015 at 10:15 PM | Reply | Edit

Does anyone remember The Voyaguer Hotel on Montreal Rd by the Highway before Orleans. Upstairs was a dingy little bar with strippers.

• Doug | December 23, 2015 at 12:21 AM | Reply | Edit

Oh, ya. Went to Gloucester High School…………

 

After some forthright discussion from the previous post, we’ve done two edits.  One, is to spell San Bernardino correctly, as incorrect spelling immediately removes one from being able to criticize the good old USA.  We are wearing the Typo Dunce Hat for the hour, to make up for it.

The second was to remove the quoted number of 355 active shootings in the US in 2015.  The number, quoted by many news outlets, including the NY Times and MSNBC is bullshit, so we’ve pulled it.  This article http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/opinion/how-many-mass-shootings-are-there-really.html?_r=0  explains it well.  We don’t mind admitting the error and find ourselves in good company in inadvertently distributing crap data.  Every media outlet did that day, so we will suck it up and say sorry about that.

The discussion set off some thinking however.  Not about gun control, gun ownership, the NRA, or the 2^nd Amendment to the Constitution.  Those things are almost parenthetical to the San Bernardino outrage.  What it comes down to is how we protect the innocent, uninvolved bystanders.

Here’s our construct and we’ll be broad in our definitions, if only to keep from getting bogged down in trivia.

There is a difference between Criminals and Crazies.  Criminals do not want to die in the commission of their crimes:  Death ruins the cash flow, as a dead bank robber can’t rob more banks, break into more houses, or even up the score with a rival gang over turf, drug deals or protection.

Criminals tend to threaten the innocent bystanders until they get what they want and then want to get away quickly.  Even solo criminals, let’s say serial rapists, only want to perform the act, then run away to do it again.

Crazies we have to define.  A Crazy perpetrator of some kind of violent outburst doesn’t care if they live or die.  They want to kill innocent bystanders, or the uninvolved as a way of demonstrating their belief in whatever might be their issue.  It could be religious, it could be mental illness, it could be grudges over something said or done by a group to them, or about them.  A major defining characteristic is the desire to NOT run away after doing whatever they feel is appropriate as revenge.

There are always exceptions to each broad group, and one exception does not disprove the entire construct.  (If we could manipulate a deck of cards to have the 3 of Clubs squirt warm water in your face once, would you believe that every 3 of Clubs, anywhere in the world, at any time, would be gaffed to squirt water in your face?  If you do, then you’re missing the arc of the discussion and should stop reading now.  No discussion is ever 100% perfect in all situations, all the time.  Lighten up a bit, OK?)

Criminals use firearms, regardless of length, caliber, mag size or styling, as a way to threaten the victim to do what the criminal wants them to do.  Hand over the money, give us the keys to the car, or stop selling your drugs on our turf.  The threat of violence is the determinant, but that often doesn’t work with other criminals.  Criminals, generally, are not skilled or trained to use firearms effectively in a crisis situation under pressure.  That’s when you get into rounds flying everywhere and innocent bystanders being shot because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, which is what we want to prevent.

Crazies want to kill or wound as many as possible using their weapons as the determinant.  A suicide vest doesn’t mean much until you actually detonate the vest and kill innocent bystanders.  Threatening to blow yourself up for a half-hour is frightening, but until you do it, or you pull the trigger on the firearm, you’re just a crazy with a dangerous problem and the potential to cause mayhem.  The cops might even be able to talk that kind of crazy down, or disarm them, rendering the situation harmless.  Police have the tools, training and expertise to tell the difference between a potential crazy and a real crazy.  A real crazy explodes or starts shooting with no warning, the objective being to use whatever weapon has been selected, starting now.

In both cases, legislating the tools used for the threat or action, does nothing.  Criminals are not concerned with the niceties and responsibilities of gun ownership.  Crazies want something that will help them kill more, faster.  An axe is great for splitting wood or splitting somebody’s head open and the change from utility tool to weapon takes less than a second.  It’s like licensing ownership of a pair of pliers because someone could, conceivably, use pliers to not only fix the light in the hallway, but also to rip off someone’s nipples in a violent sexual assault.

What we want to control is the ability to readily inflict harm on many innocent bystanders.  An axe or a pair of pliers doesn’t have a mag, but firearms do, which is where the danger to the innocent bystander comes in and why we have to have a sanction on the illegal use of this specific tool.

(Yes, single-shot black powder firearms don’t have a mag.  Potential mass-shooting victims could take public transit to safety if the attacker is using a musket.)

Which brings us to how to manage some of the situation.  For criminals, we proposed something called the Double-Double in November 2006.  The short form is that if you commit a crime with a firearm, the sentence doubles and no parole.  Discharge the firearm?  The sentence doubles again.

A simple robbery, if convicted, goes from a 4 to 7-year sentence to a 16 to 28 year-no-parole, served-consecutively sentence.  Criminals, being somewhat clever, would recognize that being near a firearm is not good for business.  The Double-Double has nothing to do with gun ownership, the 2^nd Amendment, or the right to defend yourself.  It has everything involved with making it unattractive to illegally use a tool that can rapidly involve many innocent bystanders in a bad way.

For the crazies, we can’t stop them from legally buying firearms (San Bernardino), ammonium nitrate fertilizer and fuel oil (Oklahoma City), drywall screws (Tuesday in Beirut by a bomb maker) or schedule 40 pipe from Home Depot.  Even with all the background checks you can imagine, you can’t predict what is going on inside their brain.

Remember what the motivator is for criminals or crazies:  One wants to do it again, the other wants to do it once.

At least we can control some of the mayhem, by controlling the criminals, making the illegal use of a tool punishable by a very long stretch in prison to discourage the use of a tool that can very easily harm many innocent bystanders.

The crazies?  We can’t control unless we’re willing to go over to a complete surveillance society, with the police watching our every move, everywhere, for suspicious intent.

This we don’t want.

We’re going there and there’s going to be all kinds of backlash from all sides about this.  So be it, but before you decide to respond, do read to the end.

The bones of the story are common.  A pair of people decided to shoot up an event, killing 14 and wounding (so far) 21 others.  The police responded and the two ‘active shooters’ were killed.

Did the killers have some kind of grudge, or get into an argument, or some kind of beef, then go off and wreak some revenge?  Not clear yet if it was a couple of people going “postal” to use the old term, or if there was a political thing happening.

Was it a terrorist act?  We don’t know yet, that’s still under investigation and we won’t know for certain for several weeks, if ever, with any certainty.

Were the killers Muslims?  Well, there names weren’t Jones or Smith, somewhat foreign sounding, but he was a US citizen by birth and she was his wife by marriage, possibly from Saudi Arabia, or thereabouts.

Some media are saying they were devout Muslims, but we haven’t seen the evidence.  We suspect the evidence is a good headline.  Odd how you never see a headline that another killer was a “hair-trigger Lutheran”, a “tightly-wound Hassidim” or a “slack-ass Sunday Catholic”.  You never heard media say “Eric Rudolph, the possibly German, radicalized Baptist…”  Just sayin’

Were the killers radicalized somehow?  That’s still under investigation and will take a long time to make some kind of determination one way or another. CNN is quoting unnamed law enforcement sources that one of the killers was ‘radicalized’.  We’ll likely never know, even if we agree on whatever the hell ‘radicalized’ means.  Not making excuses here, but “unnamed sources” are sloppy reporting.  I can report, right now, that “unnamed sources” suspect that you (yes, you) have engaged in rough sex with penguins several times.  Until we can put a name and a context to the accusation, it’s bullshit.

Did they use legally obtained weapons to commit their acts?  Yes, they did.  Perfectly legal long guns and handguns, with lots of ammunition along with the home made pipe bombs which are not legal.

Were the various media outlets guessing at a lot of things during their coverage?  Yes, the media were guessing, some more than others.  (I was home from work and watched this all unfold live on CNN and KTLA, only a few minutes after things started happening.)

Which is our way of saying, we don’t know jack-squat right now.  Be assured that various groups are pointing to this incident to prove whichever point they feel they must push to the fore to hijack the discussion.

The real discussion is when did so many people decide that the only way to solve their problems was to shoot up the place?  Be it an elementary school, a movie theatre or an office party, the go-to response for settling grudges or curing untreated mental problems seems to be mass shootings.

Is it the way for the loners and losers and axe-grinders to have their fifteen minutes of fame, as they die in a hail of police gunfire with live coverage from a news team in a helicopter?

Is this what America has become?

We used to have a lot of admiration for the US.  America did big things for the right reasons, to let the huddled masses yearning to be free to make their way, through hard work and little luck to get their slice of freedom and prosperity.  America treated the sick, protected the weak and helped those with difficulties, without hesitation, almost everywhere in the world.

Slack-jawed, knee-jerk reactions from every corner of the political spectrum obscured by alternating fist-pumping and hand-wringing is the norm, when it deigns to interrupt the relentless pandering in the media to making stupid people famous.  All wrapped in a flag that used to mean something profound, strong, kind and safe.

San Bernardino isn’t about Muslims, Immigration, Guns, Foreigners, Politics or even Jihad.  It’s about America being afraid, all the time.

America used to be a good thing.  It isn’t any more.  You need to fix it.

We’ve received a few requests to explain the differences between Canadian Thanksgiving and American Thanksgiving for our American readers.  A few years ago Mason Baveux, our guest writer, did a piece on the comparisons between the two, so I asked him to do a rewrite.  After staring at me like I had a spare head growing out of my chest, he finally clued in; “You mean like do’er over but explain her better?”  This is what he sent back:

Thanks lad fer givin me another shot at the blog writing. I’m getting the hang of ‘er and I don’t have to get my drink on like last time from watching the US politics. Plus, I’m startin to get a handle on this HyperTex Tampax Protocol stuff, ‘cept it sounds a little too feminine for me. Just the same. Thanksgiving.

OK, now us Canadians had out turkey back in October.  You Yanks are getting stuffed today.  You’d think we’d line these two holidays up a bit better, but there’s a reason why we don’t. Lemme explain it out for you.

The whole shebangs been going on since before there was a North America. Thanksgiving’s a harvest festival, meaning the locals got the crops in and then sat down to put the feedbag on before the snow flied.

In Europe, or the UK more like, she started raining for two friggin months, with a day or two of snow. She was too wet to plow or do much more than sit around the fire and say “Fook, she’s rainin; again. Yep, she’s rainin’ and we got fog too. Fook this, crack open ye olde flagon of ale and let’s get lit up!” Which is how they passed the winters in Bill Shakespeare’s time. The same’s true at Lahr in Germany, when the base was open there, which it isn’t anymore.

My Indian buddy, Peter Three-Skidoos told me about how the First Nationals used to celebrate the same thing over here, before the Europeans came over. Same idea of party it up before the snow flies. And Peter isn’t an Indian Indian, like from Calcutta with the curry. He’s 100 percent Ojibway First National: Like he says, his family met my family when we came over about 400 years ago, so he should know, right?

I did some looking up about it on that Wiki-tiki-tavi-pedia thing. Seems the first thanksgiving by white folks was done in 1548, in Newfie, fer Christ sake. The explorer Martin Frobisher, who was looking for the Northwest Passage, finally got back to his base camp on the Rock. Marty Frobisher and the rest of the lads cracked the rum open and had a go to celebrate Not Dying. Good a reason as any.

The Americans got into it late, as usual. We’re not counting some Spaniels, or Spanyards who did it up September 8th, 1565 near St. Augustine Florida. There were 600 of them, so’s I suspect there was a hell of a party. I think they had it near the Arby’s in St. Augustine. I’ve been there you know.

The American folks who claim the first one up, were what were called the Berkeley Hundred, in Dec 4 1619 near Jamestown Virginia. They weren’t into the turkey then, they were just glad to not be dead from sailing across the ocean. It was more a prayer service than anything.

The first Americans who did something like the kids story Thanksgiving were the Pilgrims at Plymouth Mass. Before the car, there was the town Plymouth and they did it in 1621. Seems that a First National called Squanto and his tribe, the Wampanomags taught the Pilgrims how to catch turkeys and eels and how to use the foods that grew there in Plymouth. That would be pumpkins and cranberries and squash and sweet potatoes. And turkey.

If Squanto and the Wampo tribe lads hadn’t been there to help the Pilgrims get their heads out of their arses, the Pilgrims would have all starved to death that winter and we wouldn’t have Plymouth cars. They’d be called Worcesters or Massachusettses. Worchester Belvedere? That’s no damn good.

For the longest time where Thanksgiving showed up on the Canadian and the American calendar moved around a bit. Up here we kept it in October, as that’s more or less when the last of the corn comes in. Down south, the seasons longer, so the US Thanksgiving sometimes would run later the more south you went.

For a while, both of us kept to the British tradition in October, but when the Yanks had their Revolution in 1776 they wanted to get rid of all the British leftovers, so they looked for a later date. It wasn’t until Honest Abe and Civil War that you Yanks settled on November and that’s where she sits now.

As for what we do up here, we do the same thing. We cook a big goddam turkey and more vegetables than the third floor ward at the Penatanguishine Home for the Insane. There’s bread stuffing, cranberries, both jellied and whole, mashed spuds, sweet potatoes, brussel sprouts, boiled carrots, green beans and enough gravy to float a skiff. You eat until your pants don’t fit, then loosen the belt and have seconds or thirds.

When you can’t see no more, you push back and take a break. In our house we used to have gravy bread for the last course. If you’ve never had gravy bread, I’ll give you the recipe. You take a slice of white bread, put it on the plate. Then you pour turkey gravy on it until is just starts to think about floating. Then you eat it. An old family recipe that.

Then there’s the pie. Pumpkin pie, apple pie, mincemeat pie and sometimes lemon pie. You get whipped cream on the pumpkin, but not on the lemon pie as that’s just wrong. And Apple Pie without Cheese is like a Kiss without a Squeeze.

For drinks, well, you’ve got the traditional basics: Rum and Coke. Rum and Ginger. Rum and Diet Coke for those who are watching their weight. After you’re done, sometimes there’s Rum and Coffee, but lately it’s been Bailey’s and Coffee, or Rum and tea for them what drinks tea. The usual measure is three fingers of Rum or Bailey’s and top the mug up with coffee.

By this time you’re half in the bag and can’t feel your legs anymore. Some of the family go out hunting, if its close to deer season. Well, more proper, they go jacklighting off the ATV’s or the snow machines, if we’ve had a early snow.

Sometimes they get a deer, but more often than not they just shoot the hell out of the highway signs. I’ve never seen them bring back the highway signs, but the deer always come back across the ATV if they’ve had some luck.

By now most of us have had a snooze and its about time for cards. Cribbage is the game of choice. Now there’s a choice of rum or beer. I’ll stick to the beer about then, as I can’t count cribbage if I’m full of rum. On the rum, it’s 15-2, 15-4 and then I get confused and it goes to hell from there. On the Red Cap, it’s fine. I can peg and count at the same time. There’s always an argument or two.

Around midnight, we give it up and go home.

I kinda like the old ways some days. Just a day for saying “Hey, we’re not dead today! Thanks!” The rest is good, but not always necessary, so’s your could say I’m from the Marty Frobisher school of Thanksgiving.  We’re not dead today!

Thank you Mason, as always, curiously insightful.  A Happy  Thanksgiving to our American Readers

We woke up our esteemed guest commentator, Mason Baveux from his pre-game training for the CFL Eastern Conference final.  For those who don’t follow or know about the CFL fan base, this is the pre-game process for the spectators; it involves three fingers of Captain Morgan Run (or Palm Breeze) in a glass with enough Coca-Cola to colour it dark.  Repeat until you can’t feel your legs.  Wake up and do it again. 

We wanted to know what his thoughts were on how people are reacting to the Paris terrorist attacks.  Not a lighthearted subject to drop on someone four days into a three-day bender, but he took to the keyboard with a vengeance.

Thanks for the keys to the bloggery again Davey.  Here we go on Paris.  First off, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, or whatever then goat humpers call themselves can go eff themselves.  The various cops will take care of the ones on the loose and it won’t be all nicey nicey.  Fook’em all.

What’s got my back up is what some of my fellow citizens have been doin to them what are Muslims.  That’s just pissed me off something fierce, because it showin’ just how stupid we can be, without there bein an upside to it.  This I’m blamin on the schools some, but I’m really blamin on how ignorant a lot of folks really are.  So’s we’re goin to educate some of you arseholes.

You know how us folks have all kinds of different types of religions that are all Christians?  Protestants, Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Baptists, Presbyterians and the like?  Well, Islam’s got the same thing.  There’s probably as many different brands of being Muslim as there is being a Christian.  Some of them get along fine and others are like a box of wet cats goin to the vet.  You need welding gloves to handle them, or they’ll turn your arms into hamburger meat.

Where things got all messed up is in the area of that map called the Middle East.  Go look at a map and you’ll see all kinds of straight lines around there that got nothing to do with the folks what live there.  If you and your goats are on one side of the line, you’re Syrian, on the other side yer Jordainian, or Iraqi, or Turkish, or Kurdish, or Kuwaiti.  This goes back to just after the First World War and some monkeyshines called the Sykes-Picot Agreement what divvyed the place up with a bunch of secret deals that had nothing to do with the folks what were livin there.

It’s like Yugoslavia.  There weren’t no such thing as Yugoslavia until someone said there was and held a gun to the heads of anyone who disagreed, who was Joe Tito holdin the gun.  Then when Tito died and the Commies took their big dump, the whole joint reverted back to Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro, Slovakia, Croatia, and Herzegovina, with some leftovers from Istria, Zadar, Rijeka, Hungary and probably Austria.  It was a put-up job done after the First World War too.  That worked out really well for everybody, didn’t it?

Back to the Middle East here.  So’s imagine you’re walkin around, herdin your goats and some asshat in a uniform says you’re now Syrian and you just joined the effin army.  You and your family been walkin those paths for as far back as anyone can remember and now you’re stuffed onto one side of the line, or the other.  You didn’t get to vote, or even ask questions, just pow, you’re Syrian, or somesuch.

The other part of this massive Mongolian fookpile is the various branches of Islam that don’t want to play nice with each other.  Sunni Muslims don’t like Shia Muslims.  Alawite Muslims think the other two are arseholes.  Wahabi Muslims think the other three are dumber than a box of hammers and are so messed up they might as well be Episcopalians.

What that does is change who yer runnin away from.  Refugees in Jordan are trying to get the hell away from the Syrian Army, not ISIS.  Refugees in Turky are tryin to get the hell away from ISIS.  What’s left of the Iraqi army has its ass kicked out of Mosul, but not after kickin any asses what had Sunni sounding names, as they were mostly Shia as was as lot of the army bosses who wanted to settle some scores.  The Saudis are mostly Wahabi and want the other two or three branches to kill each other off, by doin nothing to interfere in any of it.

Come to think of it, somebody is buyin the bootleg oil what the ISIS is usin to fund their fun and sellin it on the market.  I’m just saying, if you follow the money…

So what we got here is a bunch of little branches of Muslims, who don’t like each other, let alone themselves, livin on a map that was a scam job secret deal with no homeland and fightin each other to try to get a piece of peace, for more than a few generations of livin in a refugee camp tent.

Tell me, how fooked up would you be, if you weren’t sure if you’d make it to lunch alive, in case the Syrian army, or the rebels from Mosul, or a bunch of messed up neighbours decided to gas, shoot and bugger everyone on the camp who didn’t have the same sounding name?  That’s what you call a recipe for radicalization that only takes 20 minutes at 350, until a toothpick in the middle comes out clean.

Now, I’s not makin excuses for ISIS.  I say we do something Davey suggested a while ago, after the Charlie Cartoonist shootings in Paris.  Capture as many as you can and toss’em one by one out of a helicopter over their territory, with a note was says “Fook You, arseholes!”  Even a lot of Muslims are using this Hashish Tag called #NotInMyName to distance themselves from these fuckwads in ISIS. So learn this:  Muslims ain’t ISIS.  Want me to repeat that?  Muslims Ain’t ISIS.

Not that us Christians were a whole lot better.  The Inquisition, back in 1250 saw a bunch of Christians tryin to decide who was more Christian.  There was talk what the Cathars and the Franciscans was sayin they were closer to God.  So’s the Dominicans decided to kick some ass through the church courts.  Jeeze, even Galileo got his ass hauled into court, sayin the Earth went around the Sun, not the other way around.

Or the Crusades back in 1095 when we got all offended about Jews and Arabs bein on “holy” ground.  Mind you, we got this shit out of the way in the day before we had cruise missiles and truck bombs, but it’s the same bullshit on a different day.  We’re no better, so shut the fook up.

See, what it all comes down to is what brand of God you like.  We’re all prayin to the same one, just some like their brand, while we like our brand.  Fightin over it is stupid.  God don’t care.  If he did, he’s tan our asses for bein idiots.  This is us getting our panties in a snit, not anything to do with God.

To sum her up.  If you’re goin to mouth off at somebody you think is a Muslim, you’re just showin how fookin stupid you are and how much you don’t know.  They got just as much right to wear a scarf on their head, as what a Jew does wearing their yarmulke, a Sikh does with a turban or you do with your crucifix.  It’s nothing more than havin a reminder on your calendar about what you believe in.  It don’t make you a terrorist, or a friend of a terrorist, or a friend of a friend of a terrorist.  It’s like blamin you for the Inquisition.

These folks got just as much right to be here as you do.  And a reminder that one-eighth of my family, met your family when they got off the boat the first time in Plymouth Rock, fleeing religious persecution and not knowing shit about what to eat, or how to survive winter without dyin.

Mouthin off near me at some Muslim, or Jew, or Sikh, or any other religion means you might just get your ignorant attitude adjusted right quick.  I don’t mind getting on the bus with only one shoe, as the other’ll be up your arse.

A week and change after the Paris terrorist attacks and, to quote an old radio jingle “The Hits Just Keep On Coming!”

France and Russia have decided that Raqqa in Syria is a great place to start controlling ISIS.  Air freight deliveries of attitude adjustment devices continues more or less around the clock.  Various ISIS buildings, storage areas, oil refineries, office and training areas have been turned to rubble.  Of course ISIS is not posting videos of the carnage that has ensued, for fear their associates, hangers-on and fanboys discover that having any affiliation with ISIS will ruin your day in a very permanent way.

The local cops, meaning the state police in Belgium and France have taken to showing up at various apartment doors with their form of concierge service wake-up calls:  Door breach, two flash-bangs then a lot of gunfire.  Hands up and surrendering means you get three rounds center of mass, while the assistant concierges on nearby rooftops paint noses with a red laser dot in eager anticipation of exercising the index finger of the right hand.  Victims of terrorist attacks don’t get the benefit of a judicial process, so neither should terrorists.

We came up with an appropriate response in February of this year, just after the Charlie Hebdo outrage.  The link is here but this is the short form: One helicopter flight a day.  Slow to a hover at 1,000 feet over a marketplace, or some largish public square, when it’s busy.  Tie a nicely worded note along the lines of: “We’re returning one of your soldiers.  Fuck Off.  Sincerely, The Rest of The World” to a captured ISIS member and toss him or her out the side door without a parachute.

Gravity will do what it does.  Video the whole thing, including the very successful and squishy landing of the ISIS soldier.  Post it on every ISIS media outlet you can find.  Repeat the process several times a week, usually around lunch hour, when most people are out and about in Mosul or Raqqa.  It’s inexpensive (Conventional iron bombs from bombers, cruise missiles and even drones are pricey per hour to operate), somewhat inelegant and not necessarily legal in a Geneva-convention-kinda-way.

But would be a very effective method of communications.

Now that some of the dust has settled out from the Paris terror attacks, we’re developing a new focus.  Those who responded to the previous post, are just as divided as we are.  The problem, aside from the moral issues, is not if we should stop ISIS, but how do we stop them.

We’re reasonably certain that the long march of re-education and demonstrating our willingness to beat swords into plowshares won’t sway the enemy in this or the next four generations.  We’re also certain that geopolitically we can’t give them their own homeland, even if we ask Syria, nicely, to hive off a piece of their holdings, to serve as an Islamic Caliphate for those who wish to return to 632 AD in their Captain Wayback Time Machine.

We’re saddled with ISIS, like it or not, so we have to deal with them.

We know that rationally we can’t bomb them back to the Stone Age:  We tried that in Viet Nam and it didn’t work, because a subsistence guerilla insurgency doesn’t need a vast infrastructure to operate.  There is no ISIS-operated central warehouse of suicide vests that is the only source for ISIS.  The insurgency is dispersed in living rooms and back yard sheds, all over the planet.  Hitting one, or a dozen, all at the same time (ooh, Shock and Awe again) does nothing useful.  Bombing only makes the group dig in harder, doing more with even less, despite what Giulio Douhet or  Curtis LeMay might have thought.  Where massed strategic and tactical air power does work is against an organized, managed military, like Version II of the Iraq war.

Boots On The Ground is the working theory that we know will work.  Unfortunately, the political fallout is too grisly to contemplate.  Look at how well we’ve treated our returning veterans from Afghanistan, Iraq or Bosnia as proof that pudding only tastes of blood, burned flesh and tears.  The West (by that we mean, more or less the First World) does not have the stomach or the will to go there and ISIS knows it.  That’s why they can pull off their particular brand of barbarism.  Even vaporizing Jihadi John with a Hellfire missile from a drone won’t put much of a dent in the insurgency.  By definition, these kinds of groups are loosely organized with somewhat misty lines of command and control, unlike a conventional military force.

Which leaves us with no viable course of action we in the First World can take to solve the ISIS problem.

Now that is not exactly true, but going full-barbarian/savage is not something we do in the First World.  We have the capability, no issue there, but declaring everyone at a particular map reference a target means there will be many lives lost who through pure happenstance are there when the rain of Bad comes down.  Conceptually we could surround the area with a big fence, nobody in or out and start killing anything that walks or crawls, but that is beyond pale for the First World.  It would work, in that the ISIS leadership, members, supporters, hangers-on and fans are made to go away, but cannot happen.  We are not barbarians.

Or should we, as the First World, draw the line and say enough.  Hold our nose, do the unthinkable, grit our teeth to mercy and become that which we wish to destroy before it destroys us.

Not a nice contemplation for a Sunday.

Things are still unclear, but here’s the bones.  A group of terrorists, probably eight in total, have attacked several locations in Paris, killing more than 120 people, with a combination of suicide bombs and automatic weapons.  The locations including a hostage taking at a concert hall, are swamped with security, as authorities sift through the crime scenes.

All the attackers are said to be killed.  Two suicide bombers blew themselves up outside the national soccer stadium during a game between Germany and France.  Another attack by a group at the Bataclan Concert Hall were stopped, likely by France’s equivalent of SWAT or the JTF, but not after killing around 100 hostages with grenades and gunfire.  A couple of restaurants were also scenes of shootings and bombings, with more carnage.  France has closed their borders; nobody in and nobody out.  Three days of national mourning.

And, of course, the Islamic State has taken responsibility for the attacks in retaliation for air strikes against IS, or ISIS, or ISIL, or whatever name they’re using this week.  Combine this outrage with the possible ISIS involvement in the Russian MetroJet takedown over the Sinai last week and there has been much blood spilled in the name of God.

We’re going to posit an analogy for you to consider.

You’re sound asleep at 3 am and hear an ungodly ruckus in the kitchen.  You pull on the housecoat and run down stairs.  You see a rabid fox, foaming at the mouth, screaming and clawing at you and your family members, tearing up the furniture, pissing everywhere and trying to corner the kids or the dog to attack them.  The animal is an uncontrolled and uncontrollable threat, causing a real and substantive danger to your family, your person and your health.

The threat does not respond to the usual norms of being frightened and desperately wanting to get the hell out of your kitchen.  It’s rabid and all the usual behavioral expectations do not apply.

There is no time to call Animal Control, the Humane Society or even the cops to help you out.  You now have a decision you must take and you have about 8 seconds to make up your mind.

The more non-violent of us would open a door or a window and attempt to shoo the creature out of the house, with a broom, yelling and making general noise.  It is, after all, another life, albeit one that is a very real danger to us right now.

The more pragmatic of us would try that, but would also have a cast iron skillet (or the 12 gauge, or a hammer) to hand and would attempt to kill that animal as quickly as possible:  Bare handed with a vegetable peeler if need be.

Your answer is important as this analogy is indicative of how we, as a society, have to react to this kind of threat from ISIS.  Take some time on this one.  If you want to, leave your decision in the comments.

At the 11^th hour of the 11^th day of the 11^th month, we take a minute to remember those who served in the various wars, police actions, peacekeeping duties and other conflicts.  Remembrance Day is important and we wanted to focus on one veteran.

This particular soldier was born in Vancouver and signed up with the Royal Canadian Artillery. He was commissioned as a lieutenant in the 13^th Field Artillery as part of the 3^rd Canadian Infantry Division.  Rotated to England in 1940 for training, his first combat was on Juno Beach on D-Day.  He was wounded, unfortunately by friendly fire late that night.  After recovering, he was posted and graduated from Air Observation Pilot Course 40 and flew with 666 AOP Squadron RCAF, flying Auster observation aircraft.  After the war, he demobbed and went back to civilian life.

A reasonable service record, some wounds and some stories including the label of the “craziest pilot in the Canadian Air Force” after slaloming an Auster around telegraph poles on Salisbury Plain. You might not know him as Jimmy Doohan, but you certainly knew him as Montgomery Scott from the original Star Trek.  Yes, Scotty was a veteran.

If you want to remember a veteran on November 11^th, James Montgomery Doohan is as good as any.

Thank you to all our veterans. We get to do things like these posts because of what you did and keep doing for all of us.

There are plenty of things to get bent about these days, so rather than dive into federal and international politics, gender, the environment and ISIS shooting down planes, we are opting for something closer to home: Christmas.

There are two schools of though. The first being the retailer point of view.  For many, especially the small, local retail shops, Christmas is the singular time of the year they can make their nut and stay in business.  Having a longer Christmas season is one way to ensure they make enough to stay afloat.

The other school of thought is that we should hold off and officially open the Christmas season November 12^th.  This would give consumers a break from hearing the Andy Williams Christmas Album on endless repeat over the store audio system until after Remembrance Day.

We are of two minds here. Yes, Christmas is a big time for businesses large and small, but for the love of mercy, we don’t need to start the Christmas décor just after Labour Day do we?  The other side is that Remembrance Day, at least in Canada and a goodly piece of the Commonwealth, is a fairly somber observance, so the whole joyous season of celebration thing is a little out of place.

Marylou used to work at Eaton’s many years ago as a copywriter, creating deathless prose for haberdashery, white goods and all the other stuff that Eaton’s sold.  They had a corporate copy standard of “Thall Shall Not Advertise Christmas Until After Remembrance Day” Come November 12^th it was wall to wall Christmas, but not a mention until the 12^th.  This strikes us as a touch paternalistic coming from the Scottish Protestant ethic of the founding family of Timothy Eaton.

What we know we don’t want as consumers is to be beaten with the retail equivalent of a cat o’ nine tails while we’re still in our summer attire.  Especially in Canada, we don’t want to see artificial snow and laden pine boughs when we know that shortly we will be unearthing the car from two feet of the real thing after spending four hours trying to find the windshield scraper that was under the deck mister, fourteen planter boxes and a turtle pool.

The other branch of the No Christmas Until November 12^th line is the dearth of Christmas Music.  In a previous career, we worked in radio, on-air.  The Program Director decreed that we would start playing Christmas music around the beginning of November, one song an hour, eventually ramping up to wall-to wall Christmas Music from the top of December until after New Year’s Day.  We have heard every Christmas song ever recorded and this includes Christmas with The Chipmunks, Vol 1 and Vol 2. , all the tracks.  Finding enough Canadian Content with at least 3 of the four MAPL designations was almost impossible as even Anne Murray didn’t release a Christmas album until 1981.

The clever reader will note we haven’t used the term “holiday” or “seasonal” in our descriptions. It’s Christmas around here and you can either deal with it or do something unpleasant and unsanitary.  We are fully inclusive when it comes to Eidain festivals, Diwali, Samhain, Yom Kippur, and any other religious or pseudo-religious holiday observances you might have.  This is our turn:  You get your turn too.  Move on.

We’re siding towards holding Christmas in abeyance until after November 11^th, if only for reasons of mental hygiene.  There is only so much enforced good-will-towards-men we can tolerate in two months, while the retailers and advertisers guilt you into parting with money you don’t have to buy things for people you don’t care about.  Not Bah-Humbug, but let us have a tiny scrap or two of decorum please?

At least until November 12^th.